We do have luon over a 3/4 plywood floor. View unanswered posts | View active topics, Board index Hardwood Flooring General Hardwood Flooring, Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests. Describe the characteristics that make for a safe, sound, sustainable subfloor. About attempting to nail to the joists. I do need to replace some subfloor that appears weak. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. 4. It does not store any personal data. Underlayment comes in rolls. Prevailing standards for each type of product will be discussed as will the basic principles of a sound subfloor in multifamily and light commercial projects. My husband and I bought a new home with beautiful wood floors. Laminate & Tile Floors. However, in the case of a weak subfloor that flexes up and down when walked on, an additional layer of 3/8-inch or 1/2-inch-thick plywood underlayment, glued and screwed down over the weaker subfloor, will add stability. Young DIY homeowner- Laid 1200sqft of Maple tongue and groove hardwood directly over particle board. what about the preparation for tongue and groove subfloor? This article will offer a comparative analysis of the various types of subflooring available for single-family homes, focusing on the characteristics that determine a quality subfloor and their implications for long-term performance. Minor hump problems can be (carefully) sanded down with a hand-held or rented orbital sander. Email: customerservice@builddirect.com. Your 2" fasteners will penetrate through the 1/2" subfloor so marking out the joist locations on your felt paper and attempting to hit those AND in between ( fastener nailing schedule: every 8" ). Hardwood Floor Inspections. Subfloor to thin and not T&G. No.. How can you always hit floor joists? It may not look perfect, but as long as its even it should be fine. Gaps galore , squeaking no fixing that, just band aiding. A concrete moisture meter works for surface-level MC assessment only, but to see further into the slab, RH testing is required.

Between the concrete, the wood, and the flooring adhesives, it is impossible to avoid the need for proper MC measurement and management. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. Ends can be left long and trimmed after the flooring is installed. I have looked at many repair jobs where particle board UL was removed and solid hardwood installed directly over the 1/2" CDX plywood sheathing subfloor. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". I could use either a construction glue or Gorillia glue. I think anyone with hardwood floors that havent been restored in a while should look into having it done because likely they not only have scuffs and a dull floor that could use protection, but the color itself would benefit from a refresher. we had $10,000 worth of engineered wood flooring installed and within a few months dark spots started to appear and in some places whole boards, what do we do now? Maybe just tilebond III. I like the gunstocks/oak/utility/ 3 1/4. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Typically, you would roll out strips of underlayment to cover the entire floor and then join the edges of each row with a special tape. Fasteners must be properly placed (according to manufacturers specifications) so they do not protrude. Then check that its flat, and sand if necessary. Cross-laminated and layered, plywood is stronger and not susceptible to the expansion and contraction that affects dimensional lumber. The tongue and groove flooring is bulletproof. Installing thinner wood flooring over an already weak or thin subfloor may cause the whole floor system to flex up and down when walked on.

This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. It is very runny and might seep into the contact area. My purpose in glueing the seams would not be not to glue the seams together but to get enought glue in the plywood to joist connection to help firm up the subfloor. One person should be on each end of the board to apply equal pressure. Once the gaps are filled, let the screed dry completely. The old homes here, that have wood directly over the joists, is not 3/4", It is old 33/32 flooring. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience.

Successful flooring is built on a dry, clean, flat subfloor, period. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Screw or nail down any loose boards. The floor will be installed over a plywood subfloor on the upper level of the home. Please let us know if there is anything else we can help out with! Improper MC levels in the subfloor can produce all kinds of residual flooring problems when covered by wood, carpet or vinyl. Great advice here on the subfloor. There are three main areas of concern: structural integrity, a clean, flat and even surface, and moisture content. Plywood Most wood sub-floors are installed over concrete slabs. Do I need to worry about getting the wrong staple. Following are some general guidelines as they relate to specific combinations of building materials in floors and subfloors. This means that when you prepare a wood sub-floor that is within any 8 10 foot range, there should be no dips or humps that exceed 3/16 of an inch.

Then re-nail the subfloor again. Is there only one 2" staple availiavle for this model? This is a very important step and should not be skipped when you prepare a wood sub-floor. This is the reason that solid wood floors should not be installed at or below grade, or sea level. They would be able to give you much better advise as they can see everything in person. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I would suggest getting a contractor out to take a look at the area in person to ensure you are installing the flooring correctly. Will I be ok if I use 2" staples and hit all the floor joists. (stay off the ends just a bit more if they are between joist.) We would really like to install hard wood floors rather than recarpet. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Concrete is a porous material that pulls moisture from the air and ground. I am adding 500 ft of 3/4 over 1/2 in plywood. Free Webinar The What, Why, and How of Wood Moisture Testing, problems with the adhesives and flooring products, Underlayment and Subfloors International Standards & Training Alliance, The Ultimate Guide to Hickory Hardwood Flooring, http://www.hardwoodfloorrefinishingseattle.com, 5 Things You Need To Know About Reclaimed Wood, Top 10 Flooring Choices for Your Home or Business, The Art, Economy, and Perils of Reclaimed Wood Flooring. Does hardwood need to be on padding. 1. The quality of your floor depends a great deal on the integrity of your sub-floor. When installing hardwood floors, builders often cover wood joists with wood subfloors. In the old post WWI houses that were put up in the Northeast (like my house), 3/4th tongue and groove hardwoods would be put down directly on the joists (no subfloor what-so-ever). Plywood is fabricated from sheets of wood veneer layered at alternating 90-degree angles and then bonded together using special adhesives under heat and pressure. But how can you be sure it is dry enough without moisture testing? Thank you for getting in touch! Check the manufacturer instructions for specifics. We recently purchased a home where we discovered black mold underneath the carpet /sill of a window in my sons room. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. This wood-based flooring combination must be flat for successful floor covering. The water content in concrete migrates from the bottom of a slab to the surface, where it evaporates according to changes in relative humidity (RH). This is normal, but too much moisture causes the boards to push beyond the small area allocated for movement, and the floor becomes pressurized as the boards crowd the space. Would it help if I glue the plywood seams?

Or has this been done before and could be ok; just not industry standard? Subflooring is one of the fundamental elements of interiors. So in this scenario, we have to decide between the least of two "evils". We cleared that away but moisture is still getting in. Flooring adhesive manufacturers are replacing toxic volatile organic chemicals (VOCs) with water. What should be my first step in this installation? There are several types of subflooring available. I purchased 850 sq. This is fairly simple; you mix it according to manufacturer instructions and patch the floor. I saw a vapor barrier/padding how will that work? My husband is insistent that we take up the particle board and replace it with plywood of the same dimension. Additional Reading: Underlayment and Subfloors International Standards & Training Alliance Additional Reading: The Ultimate Guide to Hickory Hardwood Flooring. In panel production, other chemicals including wax, dyes, wetting agents and release agents, which can be added to make the final product water, fire and insect-proof or to give it some other special quality. Moisture content (MC) is the proportion of moisture held in a material and applies to both wood and concrete. Keep moisture testing and assessment at the top of your list. The internal moisture is key because once the finished floor product is installed, the moisture equilibrates and the surface moisture will eventually change. MC is part of a dynamic concrete slab formation process.

It improves the value of your home, and with proper care, can lend beauty and elegance for decades to come. To find uneven spots, lay out a flat 8 10 foot plank and mark trouble spots as you move it across the floor in all directions. Your email address will not be published. If your joists were closer, say 12" OC, then the 1/2" plywood would acceptable, IMO.

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Todays flooring choices are so versatile that subfloor moisture issues can have a large impact on the success of the flooring installation [I]. To prevent subfloor movement, subfloor adhesive can be applied to the top of the floor joists before installing the subfloor. Subfloors must be free of contaminants such as paint, sealer or drywall compounds. Unless you are in an area of very low humidity, we recommend an underlayment with a moisture barrier, or 2-in-1 underlayment. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. 2 my husband thinks that just using a 15#felt is all we will need. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. There are no pet stains or other imperfections in the particle board and I dont think its necessary to replace it. It clearly was the cause of water getting in from the root system of a large tropical plant growing up underneath the stucco of the exterior of the house. Wood flooring lovers need not fear this, but they certainly must utilize moisture meters for wood to ensure stable MC in these types of materials. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Probably no other element receives as much wear and tear in a building as flooring. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Specifications define that sub-floors should be within a tolerance of 3/16 of an inch over a span of 8 to 10 feet. Screw every 6 inches. Jenny http://www.hardwoodfloorrefinishingseattle.com. Jerry, I agree. Particleboard is manufactured by mixing wood particles or flakes with a resin and forming the mix into a sheet. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Reality is, subfloors, such as vinyl, carpet, concrete, or ceramics cannot support a solid hardwood installation and should be removed before you install. The floor joists are 2X10 on 16 inch centers. Industry rule-of-thumb is: Make sure the subfloor is clean, dry and flat before applying any hardwood flooring [ii]. Anywhere I remove plywood I would install additional support but on seams that are ok now I would just add glue. Note: If youre going to be nailing or stapling the wood flooring, do not use large areas of floor patch. To learn more, please consult BuildDirect's. Add to this the rapid evolution of eco-friendly adhesives, and you get a sense of modern floorings installation complexity. And as you stated, over 3/4", it would NOT matter. 3. Unfortunately I wont be able to provide much help with your question. The veneer sheets are applied with an adhesive and stacked. A concrete moisture test is equally crucial to concrete subfloors. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience.

This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Mixed floor patch should be about the consistency of pancake batter. Fill dips, low spots and gouges with a cementitious leveling compound, which may also be called floor patch. A stable, level subflooring is critical to the durability and longevity of the finished flooring materials. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. I apologize but I am having a hard time understanding your question. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". These cookies do not store any personal information. The sheets are cold pressed to reduce their thickness and to make them easier to ship. Detail the implications of excessive moisture in a subfloor. in Management and his AAS in Electronics Technology. Heres what you need to know to prepare a wood sub-floor to make sure it is problem-free and has a long and beautiful life. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Wood sub-floors are a better surface for installation of wood flooring, and the only acceptable choice for a thick solid wood. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Typically, plywood is available in 4-foot x 8-foot sheets that are either 5/8 or 3/4 inches thick. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. How screwed am I? If I change the subfloor I will have a height problem where new floor meets the old floor. Throughout the house is plywood subfloor with particle over the top of that. I have learned alot with your help. In fact, the NWFA recommends a minimum of 20 moisture meter readings for every 1,000 square feet [iii]. Well have to keep this in mind because its important to us that our home be well maintained and beautiful. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Tony Morgan is a senior technician for Wagner Meters, where he serves on a team for product testing, development, and also customer service and training for moisture measurement products.

Check the manufacturer recommendations and make sure that your sub-floor meets all requirements for thickness and width. Particleboard is very prone to expansion and discoloration due to moisture, especially if not covered with a paint or sealer. Can I use a heavy mill plastic to act as a vapor barrier? I have bought a house that was built in the 1970, build well I think, flooding is solid my question is I want to put hard throughout 3/4, it has plank decking and 5/8 subflooring if put 3/4 hardwood on top of that I am afraid people will trip when they come in the door, do I need to take up the 5/8 sub flooring and put down say 1/4 inch plywood please advise thank you. If a screw or nail cannot be leveled and countersunk, replace it. I have a few questions. Plywood consists of several thin sheets of veneer, which are first either air dried or kiln dried and then glued together. What goes underneath the top flooring layer is critical in determining the performance and longevity of a building's entire flooring system. If there is a great deal of damage to the floor or it does not meet the manufacturer standards, its probably best to call in a professional contractor and replace the entire sub-floor. After the floor is swept, do a visual check of the surface. >>. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. I had our contractor remove the particle board on top of the plywood before the 3/4 floor installation. Homes without basements may still have concrete subfloor foundations below the ground (known as grade).

At other times, installers lay engineered wood over concrete subfloors. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Along with 19 years field experience for a number of electronics companies, Tony holds a B.A. The internal moisture must be allowed to dry appropriately, based on the flooring and adhesive being used on the job. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. It will crack. Ive seen some frustrating situations with particleboard too and it is just more annoying than anything. Preparation of the sub-floor is crucial to successful installation; the foundation must be solid. The glued sheets are then usually run through a hot press to dry the glue and are then trimmed, sanded if necessary and then graded for quality. This is called screeding. Wood sub-floors should be screwed to the underlying floor joists at 6-inch intervals. Use a moisture test kit to be sure that both the concrete and the wood sub-floor meet the recommended moisture content specified by the manufacturer, usually no more than 4%. Other wood floors can be installed if the particleboard is ripped out. I bought 1/4 inch thick cork as the underlayment in rolls. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. The tongue and grooved sheets interlock to create a secure base for finished flooring. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. I dont see that talked about here, am I missing it? Why You Should Use Relative Humidity (RH) Testing, Flooring, Millwork, Furniture & Cabinet Manufacturers, How to Choose a Moisture Measurement System for Your Sawmill Buying Guide, How Subfloors Affect Hardwood Floor Installation, Free Download Wood Flooring Installation: What To Expect. When installing wood floors over concrete slabs with adhesives, we add moisture between the floor and subfloor. What are your thoughts? Find the answers to your home improvement questions. And I am happy I did that. Since I have a couple of things working against me. The greater the space between joists, the thicker the plywood and OSB must be. This may indicate a weak spot in the concrete underneath, which should be addresses before proceeding. Please let us know if there is anything else we can help out with! Until the 1980s, tongue-and-grooved plywood was the predominant structural subfloor material used in homes. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". What I would do is block everywhere i could get to. It is essential to verify internal slab moisture levels. If the 1/2" plywood subfloor/sheathing is not tongue and grooved together, it could be a good idea to go under the house and add blocking at every plywood seam to support those seams and prevent squeeking. High performance panels stand out in strength, moisture resistance and sustainability, Indoor Environmental Quality: Healthy Design. My question is will hitting the floor joists give additional holding power? Any soft spots in the 1/2" CDX plywood ought to be replaced with new plywood. Using moisture meters for wood is vitally important to guaranteeing the wood subfloors integrity. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. We are going to take up the old carpet in our bedroom and put down 3/4 prefinished oak hardwood.

Squeaking caused by subfloor movement under the finished floor is a common homeowner complaint. When the subfloor is this thin, 1/2", there's not much for the staple to grab to so the installer is better off nailing at the joist locations. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. It is very important you treat and clean the concrete with the proper materials so it doesnt come back or harm anyone. Newer homes with basements and crawlspaces utilize plywood and OSB subfloors over joists.

Herman, was the flooring installed over a wood-based subfloor or concrete? My question is, how do we treat the moisture that has gotten in the concrete foundation under the window? Walk the floor. The National Wood Flooring Association (NWFA) recommends that flooring installers measure the MC of the subfloor and the joists first. Eventually, floorboards with too much moisture have nowhere to go but up, resulting in buckling and warping, which may be localized to a small area or ruin the entire surface of the floor. I want the added vapor barrier in plastic and the felt. There is always moisture in the air, but too much will soak into wood planks like water into a sponge, causing them to swell. Thats right! There is always water content in concrete mixtures, and those mixes are becoming more engineered than ever. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Every wood cell contains moisture in its walls and nucleus, while every concrete mixture contains some amount of water. To apply floor patch evenly, take the board youre using as a straight edge and pour the amount of patch you think it will take to fill the gap, then pull the board back and forth over the area to spread the patch. Tongue and groove subfloor post different problems than a plywood subfloor! Mine are fine after 80 yearsbut i sure as heck would not reccomend it! Ironically, plywoods construction can also pose an MC challenge. Listen for squeaks and feel for areas that are spongy or feel hollow. We are going to put hardwood down in the living spaces and hall. NOFMA says the minimum acceptable thickness of a plywood subfloor is 5/8" going over joists 16" OC. I would normally recommend adding more plywood but this person already has 3/4" hardwood installed elsewhere that he is trying to match up to. The subfloor can be flattened by sanding down the high areas or by installing shims. Try to hit the joist when fastening the floor and probably no more than 6" OC, stay off the ends just a bit more if they are between joist. Engineered or solid wood flooring less than 1/2 inch thick can be installed over a plywood subfloor. Can we mix it up with another more rustic board even a shade darker and/or lighter. I highly suggest getting in touch with a certified mold expert to ensure it is removed completely. Any cookies that may not be particularly necessary for the website to function and is used specifically to collect user personal data via analytics, ads, other embedded contents are termed as non-necessary cookies. I know that I am pushing the subfloor thickness but the rest of the house has 3/4 oak over the same subfloor. Home Moisture Meters Wood Division Knowledge Base How Subfloors Affect Hardwood Floor Installation. Required fields are marked *. Please let us know if you have any other questions! You need to keep in mind that most 1/2" subfloors are not T&G that fact alone makes a considerable difference. Out of these cookies, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. You cannot install hardwood over particle board, it will need to be 3/4 plywood to ensure the floor stays stable. What is your feeling about the 1/4 inch cork underlayment? Your floor could be fine. Installers frequently find particleboard as a subfloor layer over plywood when carpeting or vinyl is ripped out. A wood moisture meter can be an extremely helpful tool to pre-empt warped wood subfloors. Used for structural and foundation support, subfloors ideally minimize moisture absorption and help prevent excessive movement, sagging, unequal heights, separation, or squeaking within the floor system. Note: The typical recommended thickness of the sub-floor is .

When mixing the patch compound, add the water first and then the dry mix so you dont get a thick clump in the bottom. Your email address will not be published. Subflooring is a critical structural element that can determine the performance and longevity of the entire flooring system. Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Google+ (Opens in new window), By continuing to browse this website, you agree to the use of cookies for the collection of traffic statistics and to improve the quality of our website. Many builders mistakenly believe that surface MC levels reflect those of the whole slab. I still need answers to some questions. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. It has the capacity to fail but it doesnt necessarily mean it will. How do we combat those problems. ft. of engineered Elmwood flooring from you about 9 months ago and have just now started the prep work to float the floor.. Call: 1-877-631-2845 Explain the importance of Evaluation Service Report standards. Since particleboard has no holding power for fasteners, the only suitable wood flooring that can be installed is a floating floor. Thank you for getting in touch!

However you may visit Cookie Settings to provide a controlled consent. Wood flooring should be considered an investment. Engineered hardwood can be installed over concrete, wood, tile, and full adhered vinyl subfloors when installed as a floating or glue-down floor. The word level often comes up when discussing flooring, but its not entirely correct, because no level measures an 8 10 foot span. Experts maintain that most hardwood flooring including engineered wood and laminates can be installed directly over 5/8-inch or 3/4-inch-thick plywood subfloors. Plywood subfloor is straightforward. Once the preparations are done, you should clean the floor thoroughly, removing spatters of compound, dust, nails, or anything else that may cause problems under the floorboards. I could block all the areas that I repalce and I could get to some of the floor from below but about half is over my workshop with a finished ceilingI am looking at buying a Bostitch MIIIFS 1-1/2-Inch to 2-Inch Pnuematic Flooring Stapler. If there are any creaks, squeaks or loose panels, refasten the subfloor to the joists before applying the flooring. He had to add a 1/4 plywood on top of he 1/2 that was left, I was worried this would be inadequate but it worked out well. Will those work together or should we go another way. Sanding throws up a lot of dust, so be sure to wear protective goggles and a dust mask. If the internal moisture is not appropriately dry, it may cause problems with the adhesives and flooring products.